ok i am very new to the vw world. i have a project sand rail in progress. i have a type 4 motor. I was wondering about all the thin sheet metal type shroud around the whole thing. i was told this is for the cooling system. is it necessary on sand rail buggy since the engine is not enclosed? Also what about removing it and if needed having an electric fan blowing from above it? I was told the engines don't have a temperature sensor. can one be put on to monitor temperature? thanks 

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MY72BUG
Hi TX - welcome to the world of VW.  I cannot speak to the topic of engines in sand rails but I can tell you that all of that engine tin and all of the seals that are to be found in the VW engine compartment are integral parts of the air-cooled system in the old VW cars.  The shrouds or engine tin serve to focus an absolute hurricane of air pumped by the turbine shaped fan contained in the fan housing and bolted to the back end of the generator.  This forced flow of air over the cooling fins is essential for the whole rig to work without doing a melt down.  Maybe the guys who do the sand rail and buggy work can comment on what can be left out but anything which reduces that vital flow of air will compromise your engine.  No electric fan powered by 12 volts is going to move that flow of air - on that you may be sure.  There are heads which have openings for temperature sensors.  An old VW standard is if you run your engine and the oil dipstick is too hot to hold - your engine is running too hot   Check with someone who has gone down this road BEFORE you cook your mill.   Dan (MY72BUG) in Goderich, Ont.
I'd rather have a partial bottle in front of me than a partial frontal lobotomy.
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68autobug

I agree with Dan...

it May be thin metal... as thick metal holds the heat...

chromed metal also holds the heat....

as Dan said, a 12 volt electric fan will never pump enough air into the engine...

A VW engine runs VERY hot all of the time...

so it needs the cooling air all of the time....

the air is directed over the heads and cylinders etc...

where most of the heat is....

Block up any holes in the tinware...

its the same as having holes in your radiator....

You can put temperature sensors in a few different spots...

I'm not sure about the type 4 engine though....

the best one on a beetle engine takes the place of the dipstick...

so it gives a good reading of how hot the oil is....

The oil cooler is also an important part of the cooling of A VW engine too.... I stuck foam rubber all around My oil cooler so ALL the air goes thru the cooler....

 

cheers

 

Lee Noonan    68AutoBug   Australia

 

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

 

Lee Noonan
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68autobug

Sorry that pic was of My torque converter....

Here is a pic of My oil cooler...

 

Lee  68AutoBug   Australia

 

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Lee Noonan
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bumblebee73

you want to use all of the sheet metal because it rerouts the air that is forced by your fan. with out your sheetmetal air isn't disbursed correctly, causing hot spots in your engine

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dragbug
About removing the shroud ,
bad idea it will cook at idle plus #3 will fry even sooner !
I am sure you coild find a aftermarket engine temp sensor but most will run off water (that wont help air cooled) .
I recomend a oil temp sensor and increasing the oil volume with a externall cooler , mounted wheras it doesnot warm air intake into the moter . 
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68autobug
dragbug wrote:
About removing the shroud ,
bad idea it will cook at idle plus #3 will fry even sooner !
I am sure you could find a aftermarket engine temp sensor but most will run off water (that wont help air cooled) .
I recomend a oil temp sensor and increasing the oil volume with a externall cooler , mounted where as it does not warm air intake into the motor . 


Yes I have read lately that the fan shroud has air direction fluting to direct air into the right places..  so it should always be used...
I would also recommend a large oil cooler....
Number 3 cylinder only cooks when the old VW oil cooler is used as it blocked the air going to number 3, and the air going thru the oil cooler was hot when it came thru the other side....

I have just mounted a large oil cooler under the RHS [drivers side in Australia] rear fender.. in front of the ATF tank [autostick beetle]
it seems to work great although I haven't been on any long trips as yet..

Lee in Australia

Lee Noonan
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68autobug
dragbug wrote:
About removing the shroud ,
bad idea it will cook at idle plus #3 will fry even sooner !
I am sure you could find a aftermarket engine temp sensor but most will run off water (that wont help air cooled) .
I recomend a oil temp sensor and increasing the oil volume with a externall cooler , mounted where as it does not warm air intake into the motor . 


Yes I have read lately that the fan shroud has air direction fluting to direct air into the right places..  so it should always be used...
I would also recommend a large oil cooler....
Number 3 cylinder only cooks when the old VW oil cooler is used as it blocked the air going to number 3, and the air going thru the oil cooler was hot when it came thru the other side....

I have just mounted a large oil cooler under the RHS [drivers side in Australia] rear fender.. in front of the ATF tank [autostick beetle]
it seems to work great although I haven't been on any long trips as yet..

I have also just fitted an oil temperature sender in the 1500 engine oil dipstick plate which was on all 1500 H0 engines.
I also have finned alloy tappet covers..

Lee in Australia

Click image for larger version - Name: OIL_COOLER_NEW.JPG, Views: 42, Size: 59.20 KB Click image for larger version - Name: ALLOY_TAPPET_COVERS.JPG, Views: 53, Size: 34.24 KB Click image for larger version - Name: NEW_OIL_COOLER.JPG, Views: 46, Size: 45.52 KB Click image for larger version - Name: OIL_TEMP_SENSOR.JPG, Views: 45, Size: 51.73 KB
Lee Noonan
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olspeed
Sorry Lee but I will have to disagree on the cooking #3 with the old system... please read the following:
 http://www.geneberg.com/article.php?ArticleID=238
While timing plays a part the main problem with the older style cooler setup was that people removed tinwork or the thermostat and flap system causing the air not to flow correctly... making the engine overheat. even Gene Berg states that VW would have had to pay out millions for the numerous lawsuites they would have had if the stock cooling system was not capable of keeping the engine cool. Also the same system that was used even in the old WWII era 25hp engine (cooler in the shrould between the fan and 3-4) was used all the way up to the 1500cc (around 50hp)single port. so It couldn't have been that bad.
olspeed  

66 Ghia 76 std Beetle
It's not a car it's a VolksWagon
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68autobug
olspeed wrote:
Sorry Lee but I will have to disagree on the cooking #3 with the old system... please read the following:
 http://www.geneberg.com/article.php?ArticleID=238
While timing plays a part the main problem with the older style cooler setup was that people removed tinwork or the thermostat and flap system causing the air not to flow correctly... making the engine overheat. even Gene Berg states that VW would have had to pay out millions for the numerous lawsuites they would have had if the stock cooling system was not capable of keeping the engine cool. Also the same system that was used even in the old WWII era 25hp engine (cooler in the shrould between the fan and 3-4) was used all the way up to the 1500cc (around 50hp)single port. so It couldn't have been that bad.
olspeed  




Hi olspeed
Yes I agree with You..
I was just really saying that the overheating of number 3 only occurred when the oil cooler was in the air flow of number 3

Not with the doghouse system...
as there is no obstruction over number 3 cylinder with that system..

early distributors had number 3 cylinder slightly retarded to help keep it the same temperature as the other cylinders...

and those kubelwagens in the Afrika Corps with Rommel didn't overheat...

cheers

Lee in Australia

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug



Lee Noonan
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